Staff Sergeant Laughner, U.S. Marine Corps, was called as a witness by the prosecution, was sworn, and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Questions by Major Erickson:

Q. Staff Sergeant Laughner, would you please state your full name and spell your last?

A. Justin [withheld] Laughner, L-A-U-G-H-N-E-R.

Q. And you are currently a staff sergeant in the United States Marine Corps?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you are on active duty?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long have you been in the Marine Corps?

A. Since 2001. So about six years now, a little over.

Q. And what is your current billet?

A. Current billet, I am currently TAD here and I am with Service Company CLR-17 admin, administration.

Q. And why are you there?

A. I am there because I was called here for this Article 32 to testify.

Q. And some additional Article 32s that may be going on as well?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Are you currently under a grant of immunity?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And in your own words, what do you understand that grant of immunity to mean?

A. Is for full testimony for everything I know of the events that occurred around that day and other events for any wrong doing that I did that I will not prosecuted for it.

IO: Is this testimonial grant of immunity or is this a transaction grant of immunity?

TC[Maj Erickson]: Testimony, sir.

IO: Do you have a copy of that?

TC[Maj Erickson]: I do, sir.

IO: I would like a copy before we finish the investigation.

TC[Maj Erickson]: Aye, aye, sir.

Questions by Major Erickson continued:

Q. Staff Sergeant Laughner, before you came here TAD, what was your billet?

A. My billet, I was an 0211 Counterintelligence Specialist with 2d Intel Battalion.

Q. And what different billets have you held in that MOS?

A. I have not held any other billets besides just being in counterintelligence specialist.

Q. So on 19 November 2005, where were you at?

A. 19 November 2005 I was in Haditha.

Q. In Haditha, Iraq?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And what was your billet in Haditha, Iraq?

A. Direct support as a counterintelligence specialist HET collector for Kilo Company.

Q. You say "HET collector." What is HET?

A. Human Exploitation Team.

Q. And as a Human Exploitation Team person, what was your responsibility?

A. My responsibility, the easiest way to explain it, is to talk to the local civilians through human sources and try to find out what the bad guys are doing, who they are before they can go ahead and do what that want to coalition forces and Iraqi civilians.

Q. And what unit were you attached to again on 19 November 2005?

A. With Kilo Company 3/1.

Q. And that is 3d Battalion, 1st Marines?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where were they geographically located? We know Haditha Iraq, but specifically.

A. Geographically in the city, sir?

Q. Yes.

A. Pretty much right in the middle of the city.

Q. Were they at a firm base?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was the name of that firm base?

A. Firm Base Sparta.

Q. Were you there the morning of 19 November 2005?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Staff Sergeant Laughner, are you familiar with the term "BOLO"?

A. Yes, sir. To be on the look out.

Q. On 19 November 2005, can you recall -- well, first off, where do BOLOs come from?

A. BOLOs come from the S-2 shop. If they were to get information, not necessary information that I collected in Haditha, maybe from another area, pretty much it is just, while the Marines are on patrol, to be watchful for certain individuals, certain vehicles, certain types of things.

Q. And how often would you get BOLO briefs or updates from the S-2 shop?

A. Fairly regularly.

Q. And would they come to you directly?

A. They wouldn't come to me directly. What I would do is go in there and just talk to the S-2 Marine and I would ask him if he had anything new and that was how I would find out about the BOLOs S-2.

Q. Did you have a responsibility to brief those BOLOs to anybody?

A. If I was going on patrol with any particular squad, I would let them know that there was a new BOLO out, to be on the lookout for this guy or this vehicle.

Q. Were you responsible for briefing the unit that you supported with any sort of BOLOs before going out on patrol?

A. The only thing that I would ever brief on a BOLO is if I find out some information while on patrol and I would come back and brief it to the S-2 and then to the XO or CO.

Q. Okay. Now the morning of 19 November 2005, I want to take you to that point. How did that morning start for you?

A. That morning started out -- I went over to the COC to see what was going on for that day, to see if there were any patrols that I could attach myself to, trying to go out there and find out any information. When I went in the COC --

Q. First off, what time was that when you went in the COC?

A. Around 3730. When I went in there, I had learned that the company had taken one KIA and an IED had gone off in a convoy down around Chestnut.

Q. Okay. What did do you next?

A. And then I asked them if they were going to be sending out any QRF or any other units to go out there. They said, yes, that they were going to be sending out two different units. They were going to be sending out an inner cordon and an outer cordon. I asked which ones had left first and they said that the inner cordon had already left. And the outer cordon was getting ready to leave. I asked the radio operator if he could let that squad leader know if he could hold up a little bit while I grab my terp and my gear, that way I can join them.

Q. Okay. Let me stop you there. First off, just to clear up the record, what is QRF?

A. Quick Reaction Force.

Q. And the terp?

A. Interpreter.

Q. And who was the radio operator? Do you remember?

A. I don't remember who the radio operator was. Everything happened pretty quickly at that time.

Q. So the squad leader of the QRF that you were going to attach yourself to, do you remember who that was?

A. That would be Sergeant Wolf.

Q. Continue. I'm sorry.

A. While I was in the COC they also let me know that there were possible wounded insurgents out there. That was the main reason why I wanted to get on the QRF. So as soon as I found that out I made contact with the squad leader. I went back to where we were billeted at, told my interpreter to grab his gear, that we were going outright now, grabbed our gear and we met up with the squad at the corner of Leopard and Haditha. I let the squad leader know that myself and my interpreter are attached to your squad now. We are here. We're just going to kind of mix in where we normally would be. Then we patrolled south along Leopard until we got past the soccer stadium and then moved east and started continuing south again.

Q. I am going to stop you right there. I'm going to give you an exhibit so we can all orient ourselves. You are talking a lot on roads and direction. For everybody, we are at Investigative Exhibit 69?

TC[Capt Hur]: Do you want me to bring it up, sir?

TC[Maj Erickson]: Please. I am handing the witness what has been marked asInvestigative Exhibit 69.

IO: Major Erickson, I have a requirement to have a transcript done. If you can just make sure your witness slows down a little bit so the court reporter can keep up.

TC[Maj Erickson]: Sir, can you see that clearly on there?

IO: Yes.

TC[Maj Erickson]: Counsel and the IO can follow along on their graph. I just need this so Staff Sergeant Laughner can point to where he is talking about.

IO: All right.

Questions by Major Erickson continued:

Q. Staff Sergeant Laughner, on the image there, can you point out Leopard -- where in the general vicinity is Leopard in Haditha would be, Haditha Road and Leopard?

A. Haditha and Leopard Road, it's a little bit further out on this map, sir. It would be in the top corner right there. It would be up in this corner in this area.

Q. The witness is pointing to the top left-hand corner of the map, off of the face of the map. So those two roads are not reflected on that map?

A. Correct, sir.

Q. And if you continue. You met up there and what happened next?

A. Then we continued south on Leopard until we got past the soccer stadium, which also isn't on that map. The area that I am referring to is further west. Once we got past the soccer stadium, we continued further west and started to go south through houses. Continued going south, heard some small-arms fire over to our east back towards the area that is on the map.

Q. Hold on a second. Now you say you heard small-arms fire. Could you recall what type of small-arms firethat was?

A. I couldn't say what type of weapon it was exactly. It just sounded like small-arms fire.

Q. And you are familiar with the sound of an M-16 and AK-47?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And the difference between them?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you couldn't distinguish between the two?

A. I couldn't distinguish between the two. Once we heard that, we were pretty much close to the far side of Chestnut. And the squad that I was with, we --

Q. When you say "far side on the map" just so everybody can follow along, there is a north, south, east, west directional at the bottom left-hand corner of that, you say on the "far side of Chestnut" are you on the west side or on the east side.

A. We are on the west side, sir. We are still on the west side around Leopard.

Q. Still not visible on this map?

A. Correct, sir.

Q. Okay. Go ahead.

A. We ended up going and stopping in a house so the CO, as far as I knew, could get a better situation awareness of what was going on. I ended up talking to the only individual that was living in the house while he was doing that. I asked him what he knew about the events of the morning. He said that he didn't know anything. I questioned him. I had no reason to believe that he knew of any reason that was going on. So I went back up to the roof and relayed this to Captain McConnell.

Q. Who is Captain McConnell?

A. Captain McConnell is company CO for Kilo Company.

Q. And he was with your QRF; correct?

A. Yes, sir, I let him know that. And eventually the decision where we would leave from the house we were on the west side of Leopard on Route Chestnut. And we continued going southeast back toward the area here on the map. Shortly thereafter, leaving that house, we saw two MAMs running in front of us.

Q. What is a MAM?

A. Military age male, sir. And we received small-arms fire toward us. And other members of the squad and myself we returned fire, stopped for a moment, got back up, and continued to proceed in a southwesterly direction. At that point, an individual came out there walking toward our squad carrying a white flag, I motioned for him to come closer, put him behind a berm with myself and my interpreter and questioned him as to what he was doing with a white flag. He let us know that two individuals ran into his home. One had been shot in the head and one had been shot in the abdomen. He said that the man that was shot in the abdomen continued in a southeast direction. I asked him if he could point out his house from where we are at the time and he pointed directly to the house right in front of us. I relayed this information to Captain McConnell. The decision was made that we went into that house and pretty much stayed firm.

Q. Is that house depicted on this map?

A. No, sir. It is further south. It would be right about in the middle, maybe about 100, 150 meters south. We stayed there for quite a while. I did some tactical questioning of the individuals that were in the house. MAM story was confirmed. There was an individual laying in his living room with a gunshot wound to the head. He was still alive, but he wasn't coherent. I talked to the individual of the house to see what they knew about what was going on in the area, if they knew of any other insurgents, or what they had heard earlier that morning or what they knew. No information from them. It was pretty much pointless for me to continue talking to them. At that point, small-arms fire started going again from the southeast from where we were at this one house, which would be -- the road here, sir, River Road.

Q. He is pointing to a hard pan surface on the right-hand side of the map that's just barely seen on the edge there.

A. It was further -- the small-arms fire that we were hearing was further south on River Road, pretty much in the bottom corner.

Q. The witness is pointing to the right-hand corner of the map further down from the actual image depicted on the screen. Go ahead?

A. And at that point I took up a position along the wall, there was a little rock wall by the house with Sergeant Wolf. Shortly, thereafter Lieutenant Kallop came up --

Q. Who is Lieutenant Kallop?

A. He is one of the platoon commanders for Kilo Company, which platoon, I'm not completely sure.

Q. Okay.

A. He came up in two HMMWVs with, at least, two Iraqi soldiers and some Marines. He exited the vehicles and the Iraqi soldiers had two small children with them. One was a little boy and one was a little girl. The little boy was pretty quiet. The little girl was crying hysterically. I brought them in the house. At that point I got up because I got an interpreter and went in the house and told the Iraqi soldiers through the interpreter to go ahead and give the children over -- there were two women in the house. He gave them to them and left the house and went back to my position along the wall. Sergeant Wolf had a radio with him. I do remember that. And we had learned through the radio that we had received at least one or two wounded in action from the area where we were hearing the small-arms fire along River Road. Then from there the decision was made to make a Hasty LZ, probably about 200 meters west of where we were at this one house.

Q. Is that LZ depicted on this map?

A. No, sir. It is further south from where the house was. I would say it would probably be about, if you look in the far hand corner over there.

Q. Far hand, left-hand corner?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Of this map?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Which is west?

A. Probably about 200 meters south of that corner.

Q. South of that corner?

A. Somewhere in that general direction. After everybody was medivaced, we medivaced the two children and we medivaced the one individual that received the gunshot wound. And then from there we preceded to basically backtrack from where we were at this one house back to Chestnut. Once we got to Chestnut, I told the squad leader --

Q. I am going to stop you there.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I want you to show the IO, what is Chestnut on that map?

A. Chestnut is the large major road with the dirt curve in the middle of it and pretty much in the center of the map, sir.

Q. Is there anything on that particular map that is identified with a yellow and red there; is that on Chestnut?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What does that say?

A. It says "IED approximate location."

Q. So that is the route Chestnut that you speak of when you speak of Chestnut?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Okay.

A. Once I got up to Route Chestnut I told the squad leader that I was going to go ahead and detach myself from your squad and go find and begin my site exploitation and find the squad leader that was in charge of the convoy that got IEDed.

Q. Okay. I'm going to stop you there. Site exploitation. Explain to the IO what is site exploitation?

A. Site exploitation, sir, is basically I am going into a house or an area where I think possible insurgent activity may have occurred and I'm looking for any evidence of that, weapon, chest rigs, clothing that is known to be used by the insurgents, any kind of insurgent propaganda. Anything that I can find that would give me a reason to believe that insurgent activity was going on in this area.

Q. Go ahead.

A. Once myself and my interpreter detached ourselves from the squad, we made our way going east along Route Chestnut.

Q. Now you came in from the west though; correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Go ahead.

A. And along the way I asked some of the Marines, I said "Who was the squad leader in charge of the convoy that got IED?" One of them told me it was Sergeant Wuterich. I asked him where he was. He said that he was further down Chestnut going eastward in direction. And it was pretty close to about the middle of where that road to the south and where the IED approximate location were marked on there.

Q. So between the dirt road that goes in a southerlydirection off Chestnut in the area that's marked "IED"?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Somewhere in the middle of that area?

A. Somewhere in the middle of that area. And I asked Sergeant Wuterich just give me a basic rundown of what happened. He said they were coming back from the COP and made the left on the Chestnut when --

Q. What is the COP?

A. Combat outpost. He said they made the left on Chestnut and an IED went off on them shortly after making the turn. So they stopped the vehicles, everybody got out to assess the damage to see what happened. And that was when they began taking fire from the south side and the north sides of the road. He said also around that time they began receiving fire from the south side and the north side of the road, a white vehicle pulled up, stopped abruptly, and five MAMs jumped out. And they engaged them. He said after that happened is when -- the way that I understood him was the fire team went to the north to deal with the small-arms fire from there and another fire team and the rest of the squad went to the south following individuals and going into a house where they believed they were receiving small-arms fire from. And I asked him I said, "were there any other places where you guys received small-arms fire from?" He proceeded to tell me that the first house they went into they heard AK-47s being racked along the wall and they threw fragmentation grenades in there to clear the house.

Q. Okay. I am going to stop you really quick. How many sites did he say that they went into? Do you remember?

A. I remember him saying three. The first house they went to is where they rolled the fragmentation grenades in. The second one because they went and cleared that house because they followed another individual through to that house.

Q. Real quick. Is that first house depicted on this map?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And could you do me a favor, I'm handing the witness a pen. On that exhibit, can you circle where house one is --

A. Yes, sir.

Q. -- and put a number "1" next to that? And go ahead and point to the IO where you drew that circle and that number one.

A. This right here would be house one, sir.

Q. And you said there is a house two?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you circle that house and put a number "2" next to that. And then point to it on the map as well so the IO can see where that is?

A. This house right here would be house two, sir.

Q. Now you said the white car before all of that. Could you circle where the white car was on that map and put a "C" next to that?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And then point on the map there where the white car would have been?

A. In this area right here, sir.

Q. Go ahead and continue.

A. Yes, sir.

The two houses to the south were the ones that he told me about and he also told me about there was another house to the north where they received small-arms fire from.

Q. And do you recognize that house as being referred to as house number four during the course of this investigation?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you circle -- or is house four marked on that map?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And it is highlighted up there and marked already as house four?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And what is that dirt road running off of -- in a northerly position off of Chestnut?

A. That is Route Viper, sir.

Q. And the one that runs south is?

A. Route Zebra.

Q. Continue.

A. I asked him if there were any other houses that they went in or anything else that I needed to know. That was also when he preceded to tell me that there was another house that they cleared that was close to the house that they believed to be a possible trigger location. He said in this house they found 30 Jordanian passports and a large amount of currency, American and Iraqi.

Q. Okay. Now is that house depicted on the map?

A. No, sir.

Q. That house is not depicted on that map?

A. I'm sorry. It's on the map. It is not highlighted.

Q. Could you circle that on the map there that you have in front of you?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And label that with an "A." And point to it on the map so the IO knows where you circled?

A. It would be this house right here, sir.

Q. And that is the house where the Jordanian passports --how did you say it?

A. Jordanian passports and large amounts of currency.

Q. Did you see the Jordanian passports and the large amounts of currency?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How did you see them?

A. After I finished my conversation with Sergeant Wuterich, I asked him for a security detail so I could do the site exploitation because I have to put my weapon down to do it. He said it would take him a minute to get everything together and I said that was fine and that I would go ahead with my interpreter and go to the house with the passports and the money. My interpreter and myself just walked across straight from, pretty much where it is marked as IED approximate location straight to the house.

Q. Okay.

A. Once we go got in there, there were approximately five MAMs already restrained laying on the ground in the little patio area of this house. And next to them they had already set out the passports just sort of like saying, here, this is what we found here. Here is all of the passports all set out and the money was next to it, both American and Iraqi.

Q. What did you do with the passports and the money?

A. At that point I just left them there. I left them all out because there was already Marines watching the detainees and it was all sitting right there in front of them.

Q. Do you know who the Marines were that they were watching?

A. I don't remember.

Q. Then what did do you next?

A. After that I made the decision that these guys were already detained. I am going to end up talking to them either here or back at the firm base and I would rather do it back at the firm base because I knew I still needed to do the site exploitation there on scene. So I just told the Marines there to sit tight and somebody would be able to come and pick them up and we would take them back to firm base or whatever. After that my interpreter and myself we left there and went back to where I originally talked to Sergeant Wuterich and met up with the security team.

Q. And where did you go from there?

A. From there I left my interpreter there because there were also other detainees there that were being watched by the Iraqi Army. So I left my interpreter there to overhear any conversations that the detainees might behaving with them. And then from there, myself and the security element walked to the white car which was the first place I went to.

Q. What did you see there?

A. I saw a white car with approximately five MAMs lying next to it on the south side of the road?

Q. Did you do a site exploitation of that scene?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you find anything?

A. No, sir.

Q. What were you looking for?

A. I was looking for any weapons, any type of – anything that would lead me to believe that these guys may be insurgents.

Q. Did you find any IDs?

A. I found ID cards for all of them.

Q. Did you collect them?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What kind of IDs were they?

A. They were for Huwias.

Q. How do you spell that for the court reporter, phonetically.

A. Phonetically it would be H-U-W-I-A.

Q. And Huwias ID cards, what are those?

A. They are similar to like getting a driver's license in the U. S. It's like an identification card. It has their name, approximate date of birth, where they were born, and other personal information on it, and a picture.

Q. Is there any sort of ID cards that were issued by coalition forces on them?

A. There were -- I didn't find any IDs that were issued by coalition forces on these individuals. After I finished my site exploitation of the white car, then I preceded to the first house. I walked in the first house and did my site exploitation there looking for the same thing that I was looking for at the white car.

Q. Did you find anything in house one?

A. No, sir.

Q. Where did you go next?

A. After that I then preceded to house two. The same thing, looking for anything that would lead me to believe that there was any kind of insurgent activity.

Q. And in house one you did find deceased people in that house?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. About how many?

A. Six.

Q. How many military age males?

A. At least one.

Q. House two?

A. House two, one.

Q. One military age male? How many deceased in total?

A. At least one.

Q. How many deceased in total?

A. Six to seven. I don't remember exactly how many were in that back room.

Q. So in your site exploitation, did you find anything?

A. No, sir.

Q. And what were you looking for, the same stuff?

A. The same stuff as before.

Q. Where did you go next?

A. After that I asked if there were any other bodies on that side of the road. They said there was one more that was along the ridge line. And the ridge line is --do you need me to mark it on the map, sir?

Q. Yeah. Go ahead and circle where the ridge line was and put an "R" next to that and then point to it on the map as well.

A. The ridge line was somewhere in this area over here closer to house two. Once we got to the ridge line there was one military age male laying dead next to the ridge. I didn't find any ID cards, any weapons or anything on this individual.

Q. Where did you go next?

A. After that I asked if there were any other bodies along this side of the road. They said that there weren't but there were some in more in the house that was on the north side of the road.

Q. Is that where you went next?

A. Yes, sir, that was where I preceded to.

Q. Tell us how that went?

A. Once we got across Chestnut and went up Route Viper and we went to the area marked as house four on the map, once I walked in there, there was a lady in there cleaning the house. And I didn't have my interpreter with me so -- and the little bit of Iraqi or Arabic that I knew and hand gestures, I was able to get her to leave the house so I could do what I had to do. So she left and as soon as I walked in I could look straight down the hallway and I could see in the back bedroom that there were at least two dead bodies in the back and then I preceded to the back bedroom.

Q. I am going to hold you right there for a second. I am handing the witness what has been marked as Investigative Exhibit 60, page ten of ten. When you say you went to that back bedroom of that house you saw some dead bodies. Is that a picture of what you saw that day?

A. It is a picture of what I saw that day, yes, sir.

Q. Is that an accurate reflection of what you saw that day?

A. Not when I first walked in the room, sir. When I first

walked into the room, the bodies were covered.

Q. So that is not an accurate reflection then? There are some things that have changed since that picture was taken?

A. Yes, sir, since when I did the site exploitation.

Q. So when you walked in there, what did you first see?

A. When I walked in there I first saw four bodies that were covered by bed sheets, different, various ones. They are laying the same way they were when I first walked in there. I was the one that removed the sheets from them to try to identify individuals, find their ID cards and try to identify them.

Q. Is there anything else about that picture that is different of when you went in that room and first saw them in person?

A. Yes, sir. The individual in the center of the picture, he has numbers written on his cheek.

Q. And those numbers were not there when you went in there?

A. Correct.

Q. Do you know what those numbers are?

A. As far as I knew, they were for battle damage assessment.

Q. Did you put those numbers on there?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you order those number to be put on there?

A. No, sir.

Q. Aside from the covering and the numbers on the head, is that an accurate reflection of what you saw?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. I am handing the witness what has been marked as Investigative Exhibit 61, page one of one. Do you recognize that photo?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you recognize the person in that photo?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is there anything different about that photo that wasn't there when you saw that person?

A. Doesn't have a sheet on him and he has a number written on his forehead.

Q. Other than that, is there any difference?

A. No, sir.

Q. You said you went in the house to do a site exploitation?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you explained already what a site exploitation is. Did you do anything to this body to determine whether or not this person was an insurgent?

A. The only thing that I could do was just try to find his ID card. I think this individual did have one. I remember only finding two ID cards in that back bedroom.

Q. And you think there is an ID card for that individual?

A. I think that there was.

Q. Would you have confiscated that ID card?

A. Yes.

Q. What would you have done with that ID card?

A. What I would have done with the ID cards is I would have had the name translated and run it through the database of known insurgents or individuals associated with the insurgency that we were building with the S-2.

Q. Do you know if you did it for that individual there?

A. Yes, sir. This individual, I don't remember if he had the ID card or not but the two individuals I did find ID cards for in that back bedroom, I did run those names.

Q. But you can't be sure if that is the person?

A. No, sir, I am not sure.

Q. Did you find anything else on that person?

A. No, sir.

Q. Now that person is wearing a track suit. Did that cause you any concern?

A. No, sir. It didn't because it wasn't completely black and it looked like what you could just find in the normal market in Haditha.

Q. I am handing the witness what has been marked as Investigative Exhibit 62. Do you recognize that person in the photo?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that a person you saw in that room that day?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that picture an accurate reflection of what you saw that day?

A. Yes, sir, with the exception of there is no sheet on him and the numbers.

Q. Now did you check that body?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did you find then?

A. I don't remember whether or not I found an ID card on that individual or not. Other than that, that was about it.

Q. I am handing the witness what has been marked as Investigative Exhibit 63, page one of one. Do you recognize that individual in that picture?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Same question. Is there anything different about that picture than what you saw when you went in that room that day?

A. Just the same thing, sir. No sheet and he's got the number written on his cheek.

Q. Can you determine whether or not the ID came from him?

A. I can't remember, sir, which ones it came from. I just remember there were two.

Q. So when you took those two ID cards from somebody, one of these victims --

A. Yes, sir.

Q. -- did you compare the faces and make sure the ID that you had matched one of the persons on the floor?

A. Yes, sir. And they looked generally like him. I just don't remember which ones had it.

Q. I am going to hand the witness Investigative Exhibit 64, page one of one. Do you recognize that picture?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you recognize the person in that picture?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is there any difference between that picture and what you saw that day?

A. Just the same as all of the other previous pictures, sir.

Q. Number and cover?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Staff Sergeant Laughner, did you find any weapons in house four?

A. No, sir.

Q. Were you looking for weapons in that room?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you find any paperwork, anything else that you were looking for in the site exploitation. Did you find anything in that house?

A. No, sir.

Q. How about -- there is anecdotal evidence that there was a black bag taken from house four. Are you aware of any bag taken from house four?

A. No, sir.

Q. Is that something you would have known?

A. If they told me that they would have found some evidence of insurgent activity I hope that they would tell theS-2 and I would find out from there.

Q. Can you think of anything else that you confiscated fromhouse four that day?

A. Just the ID cards. I didn't spend a whole lot of time in house four.

Q. Now I want to go back to the area that you marked as house "A." And we still have Jordanian passports and currency sitting over there. What ever happened to that?

A. Eventually, once we had made the determination of who we were bringing back to firm base for questioning, I went over to there to let those Marines know and to gather all of that stuff up.

Q. What did you do with it?

A. I put it in a big bag. I had Mickey Mouse on it and brought it back with me when I went back to the firm base.

Q. Do you know what ever happened to it after that?

A. OCFI came and picked it up when they took two of those individuals with them.

Q. Now OCFI is?

A. Other Coalition Forces in Iraq.

Q. And you never heard about that stuff again?

A. No, sir.

Q. Do you know anybody in OCFI who might know where the passports and the currency went?

A. I don't know, sir.

Q. Do you have a point of contact or anything before you turned that stuff over to them?

A. No, sir.

Q. Were any of the deceased in house four that you saw, were any of those individuals identified as insurgents?

A. No, sir. When I ran the names from that house, I didn't get any hits on my database.

Q. Do you know if those four that were identified as insurgents that day?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. Were you briefed by Sergeant Wuterich or anybody from his squad with regards to weapons being found in house four?

A. No. I wasn't briefed by anybody finding any weapons in any house.

Q. What was your understanding of what happened in house four?

A. My understanding is that a fire team went in there because they were receiving small-arms fire and they cleared the house.

Q. Do you know Lance Corporal Sharratt?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you had an opportunity to talk to Lance Corporal Sharratt?

A. When we were at the firm base together, yes.

Q. Did he tell you anything about this incident?

A. Not that I can recall.

TC[Maj Erickson]: I am going to retrieve these exhibit. Sir, I am going to offer Investigative Exhibit 69. I can make a copy of all of the changes that Staff Sergeant Laughner made to that.

IO: I already have a 69. Do you say you want to substitute a 69?

TC[Maj Erickson]: Yes, Your Honor, I want to substitute 69, the one Staff Sergeant Laughner marked on. Just for clarification or in addition -- or I can add it as Investigative Exhibit 82.

IO: I think it is more appropriate to make it a second exhibit. You already moved in 69.

TC[Maj Erickson]: Aye, aye, sir. The government moves to have this introduced as Investigative Exhibit 82.

CC[Mr. Myers]: Without objection.

IO: Mr. Myers, do you want to use that before you begin your cross?

CC[Mr. Myers]: We would like to see the document, yes, of course.

IO: Why don't we wait until after he is done with cross in case there are any other markings done so it is only onetime.

DC[LtCol Cosgrove]: Sir, I am going to take the cross. I'm not going to use that. We can shut that down. Can I take a break to see if we can make a photo copy of something else.

IO: Yes, we can take a break. We will take recess.

The Article 32 investigation recessed at 1000, 11 June 2007.

The Article 32 investigation was called to order at 1014,11 June 2007.

IO: This hearing is called back to order. Lieutenant Cosgrove, you may examine the witness.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

Questions by Lieutenant Colonel Cosgrove:

Q. Staff sergeant, how are you doing?

A. Pretty good, sir.

Q. You testified last week for Lieutenant Grayson; is that right?

A. For Lieutenant Colonel Chessani; sir.

Q. Prior to that, have you ever testified before?

A. No, sir.

Q. What I want to do then is it is my turn as cross-examination. I want to walk you through some of these things and I'm going to ask for a little more detail; okay?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. First of all, I am going to hand you a diagram that I am going to call Defense Enclosure 51. Do you recognize that document?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Can you tell me what that is?

A. It is a raw diagram that I drew when I was interviewed, I believe, by NCIS.

Q. And this is sort of a rough version, a hand-drawn version, a larger version of what we had seen on the screen earlier?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. First of all, when we saw the photograph on the scene, on the screen, up towards the ceiling, that was north?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And as you've drawn it here on this diagram, if you lay it with the -- read the English with the hole punches down at the bottom, up is north?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you have written an "N" down with an arrow pointing north?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Up at the very top of that diagram where you've written "Sparta"; is that the firm base?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that was the location for Kilo Company 3/1?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that is where you are stationed, so to speak, during that time frame in November 2005?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now to the left of this diagram going towards Route Leopard you started a dotted line to that that goes by a circle called "LS bowl." Do you see what I'm talking about?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That dotted line that is the route you took that morning?

A. Yes, sir, with the QRF.

Q. Okay. Let me then start with the time line. It was morning of 19 November and you were at the COC; is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And the COC was at Firm Base Sparta?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You heard the IED go off that morning?

A. I didn't hear the IED go off. I was told it went off.

Q. You were told it went off, in your estimation, almost immediately after the explosion?

A. It was somewhere around that time. I wasn't looking at my watch at all that day, sir. It was around about that time.

Q. Through the course of this investigation you heard the times and dates and estimations of when things happened; is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. So you think you have a pretty good idea as to when things happened that morning?

A. A fair idea. I could probably give you a round about time.

Q. 0716, does that sound about right to you from your estimation as to when the IED went off?

A. Some time around that time.

Q. And you gave the estimation that you launched with the second QRF about 0730?

A. Some time around there. That is when I asked them to call on the radio to the squad leader.

Q. So about 15 minutes after the IED exploded that is when you launched with second QRF?

A. That is when I found out about the IED and asked them to have the second QRF slow down and then I left to go grab my interpreter and my gear.

Q. So the task that you completed were gearing up, talking to people, finding out what was going on; is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that what you were doing in that first 15 minutes?

A. For the most part, yes, sir.

Q. My point is you eventually walked on foot from the firm base towards the IED site; right?

A. Eventually later on that day, yes, sir.

Q. When you gave the approximation of 0730, what does that signify. Is that when you launched out on foot?

A. It was around that time. It was a little bit after. I would probably say around 0745.

Q. So approximately one half hour then after the IED explosion is when you launched out on foot with that second QRF?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that second QRF was led by Sergeant Wolf, he was the squad leader?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And it included Captain McConnell, who was the Company Commander for Kilo Company?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. It included numerous other Marines of that squad?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Sergeant Wolf's squad; right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. So as we look on your diagram, you first traveled west on Haditha Road?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And then you traveled south on Leopard?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And then you traveled west again on the route that I can't read?

A. It should be route Teak, sir.

Q. Route Teak. Okay. And then you sort of go in a southeastern direction then to what you first marked as the OP; is that right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long does it take you to take that zigzag path that I just described?

A. I am not sure. Probably -- we weren't moving too fast so I would probably say maybe 30 minutes, maybe.

Q. So by your estimation now we are up to about 0815?

A. Probably around that time, 0815, 0820.

Q. You described in your statements and I think on direct that at some point during this evolution the initial half hour you heard small-arms fire coming from the IED site; is that right?

A. From that direction, yes, sir.

Q. So if you launched at about 0745 and you established an OP at about 0815, some time within that half hour is when you heard small-arms fire?

A. Some time within that half hour, yes, sir.

Q. And you are not sure whether it was 5.66 or 7.62 rounds?

A. I am not sure if it was M-16 or AK-47. They just sounded like small-arms fire from that direction.

Q. It could have been either? It could have been both?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You were certain though that it was coming from the direction of the IED site?

A. It was coming from east of us which would have been toward the IED area.

Q. Did you know at this time that is where the IED site would be?

A. I knew it was generally over there off of River Road and Chestnut somewhere over towards that direction.

Q. So you knew or Sergeant Wolf or Captain McConnell knew that you were headed towards Chestnut; right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did somebody have radio contact?

A. Somebody did.

Q. Not you?

A. Wasn't me, no, sir.

Q. At that time then prior to 0815, did you feel that you were under fire at all?

A. I didn't feel that we were under fire, but I know that was the reason why we stopped at the OP was because of that.

Q. Have you been under fire before?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long did you stay at that OP?

A. The first one you're referring to, sir?

Q. Yes.

A. Probably about 20 minutes. Maybe a little bit longer.

Q. What were you doing on the OP for those 20 minutes?

A. I was talking to the resident of the house.

Q. About what?

A. Just if he knew of any insurgent activity, if he had heard the IED go off that morning.

Q. And that was through your interpreter, Sal?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And he was from the Titan Corporation. Do you speak limited Arabic?

A. I knew enough if we had to tell somebody to stop and that was it.

Q. But nothing of significance? You cannot carry on a conversation in Arabic with an Iraqi citizen?

A. Right.

Q. As a member, you were the HET team NCO for Kilo Company?

A. I was one of two HET assets in direct support to Kilo Company.

Q. As counterintelligence in that situation, what would you describe your primary mission as you're going out towards the IED site?

A. To try to talk to individuals along the way and try to find out if there were any other insurgent activity or if they knew of anybody that was trying to harm that patrol.

Q. Your job is not evidence collection of some sort is it?

A. If it is there, then I would be picking it up. That way if, for example, I find somebody with insurgent paraphernalia, CDs, something of that nature, because I am going to bring that individual back because I am finding this possible insurgent propaganda on them. I can use that in my further-on questioning with that individual.

Q. So any item that you could use to further the mission or for interrogation later?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that would be Jordanian passports, money, photographs ID cards, things that you've listed off?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Nothing of significance that you found in that first OP?

A. No, sir.

Q. From that OP then you launched out again in a southeasterly direction?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who was with you when you launched from that OP?

A. They were petty spread out. I had Sal right next to me. I always keep the interpreter close to me and then we were pretty spread out. We were dispersed.

Q. As you show the dotted line, you go from the OP which is north of Chestnut, you cross over Chestnut and then come down to approximately south of the IED site?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who was with you? Who is your team, so to speak, as you were launching from that OP site south of Chestnut?

A. Just the squad.

Q. So the entire squad, including Sergeant Wolf?

A. The squad -- as far as which fire team, I'm not sure.

All I remember is that Sal was right behind me, and we were all dispersed around.

Q. I guess my point is, you did not detach from the QRF at that point?

A. No, sir.

Q. You were still part of the QRF?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Captain McConnell is still with you?

A. He is somewhere in the area, yes, sir.

Q. Did you leave anybody behind in that OP?

A. Not that I recall. I think there was maybe a fire team that was forward and doing an overwatch while we went through.

Q. Now when you are south of the IED site, south of Chestnut, you believe that you came under fire?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Why do you say you came under fire?

A. I heard the small-arms fire and seeing dirt kicking up in front of me again. It sounded like they were coming towards us.

Q. How far to your front or to your side did you see rounds kicking up?

A. I would say probably about 100, 150 meters.

Q. At that point you could hear both M-16 and AK-47s?

A. No, sir. I believe it was just AK-47.

Q. At that time you hear just AK-47s?

A. I believe so. Once we left the OP and we started going down that route.

Q. AK-47s fire 7.62 rounds?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. M-16s fire 5.56 rounds?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You know the difference between two of the sounds?

A. One is a little. There is definitely a different sound.

Q. And that different sound, as you are south of Chestnut, you believe that you were taking fire from AK-47s?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now if you were on the OP at about 0815 and you stayed there for about 20 minutes, it would be about 0845 when you are taking fire south of Chestnut?

A. Probably a little bit closer to nine because once we -- it was after we had left the OP and already crossed over Chestnut and already started to get east of Leopard. We weren't moving that fast once we got into the open desert.

Q. At this point do you realize you are south of the IED site?

A. My opinion is that I am pretty south, maybe a little southwest of it.

Q. Is your point to circle back to Chestnut to the IED site?

A. Eventually. Once we left the one house we were at we went back to Chestnut.

Q. But you were on sort of the outer ring. As you described it, you are the second QRF. So you took amore roundabout way?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And you weren't leading that squad any way; right? It was Sergeant Wolf?

A. Correct.

Q. Back to taking fire. You are taking fire from theAK-47s about 100 meters to your front is where rounds were impacting?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is that about the same time or exactly the same time that you see two military age males running?

A. I saw them shortly after that.

Q. Was it your belief that you were taking fire from those two individuals?

A. Yes.

Q. You yourself fired two rounds at those individuals?

A. In that general direction.

Q. Others from your squad also fired at those two individuals?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you know if anyone from your squad hit those individuals?

A. No, sir. I don't know if anybody particularly hit them.

Q. Were you able to find out later whether they had been wounded or killed?

A. As far as I knew, the individual that was in the living room or one of my assumptions that the individual laying in the living room with the head shot wound and the other one that the guy with the white flag told us about, those are those two guys.

Q. Okay. So you, as well as the squad, take fire, return fire, at the two military age males down there south of Chestnut; right?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. It was right about that time when another Iraqi individual comes at you with a white flag?

A. It was shortly after that happened. Once the squad returned fire and I returned fire, then we stopped for a second, took a knee, and then we started going in our direction, again, southwest. Then that was when the individual with the white flag came towards us.

Q. And he tells you that he has somebody back at the house with a head wound.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. As well as there is a second individual who was shot in the abdomen?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that second individual continued to run? He had run south?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you able to talk to the individual with the head wound?

A. No, sir. When we got in there, he was alive and he was saying something. And I asked my interpreter if he could make out what he was saying. And Sal told me he couldn't understand him. It was more or less jibberish.

Q. Were you able to get an ID card from him?

A. No. The individual had no identification, no anything on him.

Q. Were you able to identify whether these two individuals, particularly the one you say with the head wound were insurgents or not?

A. No, sir. I didn't have anything to say "yes" or "no". All I had was just circumstantial, just coming from the same direction, that we had originally heard small-arms fire, and we believe that we were shot at by these two individuals.

Q. Well insurgents don't wear uniforms; correct?

A. Right.

Q. They don't have ID cards that say they are insurgents; correct?